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  #1  
Old July 25, 2014, 09:56:28 PM
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Default *Sigh* Smogon is at it again (Another dumb Ban)

Apparently smogon is about to do another Banning suspect ladder thing again but wait! its for Ubers? Thats right smogon is going to even ban something from Ubers this time (A place where ban stuff go) the thing there suscepting is Gengarite! So gengerite (So basically Mega Gengar) might be the first Item/Pokemon to be ban completely from Ubers. (Kinda like how a clause is)
  #2  
Old July 25, 2014, 09:57:18 PM
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Smogon is nuts.
  #3  
Old July 25, 2014, 09:59:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Cat333Pokémon View Post
Smogon is nuts.
I know right, i guess they cant even handle Mega Gengar anymore. And i thought Speed Boost Blaziken & Arceus was bad to deal with.
  #4  
Old July 26, 2014, 08:54:45 AM
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I can't even take Smogon seriously anymore. They've dropped so many stupid ban hammers.
  #5  
Old July 26, 2014, 09:30:12 AM
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This is the reason i wanted to help with the making of our own rules here. Stuff like this from them is so dumb. Its like will get CU tier (Cant Use) <–I made that tier up.
  #6  
Old July 27, 2014, 07:52:12 AM
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Wait, why Mega Gengar? I know Shadow Tag is a very powerful ability.. Well, makes sense, kinda. I'd think stuff like Speed or Atk Deoxys would take it out easily. Don't play Ubers, so I dunno. I didn't have as big as a problem from it before but I dunno.
  #7  
Old July 27, 2014, 09:22:42 AM
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Found out after checking there post, that they might just ban Shadow Tag ability all to togther. They did mention something about banning wobbufett and the Gothirita line to, but it might be just the ability of them.

Last edited by kakashidragon; July 27, 2014 at 09:23:34 AM.
  #8  
Old July 27, 2014, 01:00:08 PM
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Will you calm down already there's more stuff you can do on this forum then just rant about smogon.
  #9  
Old July 27, 2014, 01:12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magmaster12 View Post
Will you calm down already there's more stuff you can do on this forum then just rant about smogon.
Whats wrong with ranting about smogon, its fun to rant.
  #10  
Old July 27, 2014, 02:31:13 PM
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Shots fired hahaha
  #11  
Old July 27, 2014, 03:19:44 PM
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smogon wat r u doin
smogon stahp
  #12  
Old July 27, 2014, 06:15:17 PM
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Now i hear that Mega Mawile might be suspected next to be banned from OU. But that one might be ok, i dont know for sure.
  #13  
Old July 27, 2014, 06:21:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kakashidragon View Post
Now i hear that Mega Mawile might be suspected next to be banned from OU. But that one might be ok, i dont know for sure.
Where did you see this?
  #14  
Old July 27, 2014, 06:38:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyBrollic View Post
Where did you see this?
Someone from this facebook group im in. (There actually good battlers, im going to battle them more often for good practice) He had posted about like a few hours ago. But i havnt checked smogon yet to see if its true. *Goes check right now*
  #15  
Old July 27, 2014, 06:49:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kakashidragon View Post
Someone from this facebook group im in. (There actually good battlers, im going to battle them more often for good practice) He had posted about like a few hours ago. But i havnt checked smogon yet to see if its true. *Goes check right now*
I checked and didn't see it but that may be true idk. They still haven't come to their final decision on the Aegislash suspect test.
  #16  
Old July 27, 2014, 06:56:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kakashidragon View Post
Whats wrong with ranting about smogon, its fun to rant.
At least rant about something different other then complaining about a site you can easily just ignore.
  #17  
Old July 27, 2014, 06:58:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyBrollic View Post
I checked and didn't see it but that may be true idk. They still haven't come to their final decision on the Aegislash suspect test.
Yeah i didnt see anything either. I think the guy was pulling our leg.
  #18  
Old July 28, 2014, 10:24:54 AM
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The convenient thing about Smogon is that you don't have to listen to their "bans".

They just so happen to be the #1 competitive battle community, but that doesn't mean everything they say is law. Back when they tried to 'ban' Excadrill in 5th gen I just laughed and used him on my team(s) anyways.

Competitive battling is fun, and that should always be the inherit rule of battling against someone else. Fun. I give credit to Smogon for creating an established metagame "blueprint", but at the end of the day that is all they are. A blueprint.
  #19  
Old July 28, 2014, 12:31:38 PM
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Yeah but most of us still follow there rules. Like we do for our tournaments here. (Well until we get own rulings started here)

Last edited by kakashidragon; July 28, 2014 at 12:32:38 PM.
  #20  
Old July 29, 2014, 07:24:29 PM
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Wait, ban Aegislash? Why? With all the Sucker Punch/Foul Play running around, it's awesome getting +2 on your attacking stats! D: I've been beaten by players just using neutral attacks, since lack of recovery kills that set. The Substitute set is interesting, though. Gotta admit. I also didn't know it can be a dual screen.

I can see Mawile being banned, but I've worked around it pretty well. Sucker Punch in general since it's easy to tell what Pokemon run it.

MGengar... I dunno. I thought the Uber ban was fine. They can't still possibly be banning it for Parish Song, are they?
  #21  
Old July 29, 2014, 08:59:57 PM
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Well i really dont care anymore unless im going to play there ladders (which im not sure i will) but the Ruby & Sapphire remakes havnt been released yet so the Meta-game will change more when those new Mega pokemon come out. (So far the starters, Metagross & Diancie)
But a few bans of theres i actually like. Its just Banning a pokemon from Ubers is just to far i think.
  #22  
Old July 30, 2014, 06:09:39 AM
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I've used all of these Pokémon and taken the time to asses each one and the reason for their banning.

Mega kangaskhan was banned for obvious reasons and it deserved the ban. The ability was overpowered and the Pokémon itself is rather bulky, meaning by the time you were able to take it out, mega kanga had already obliterated half your team. Not fun.

Mega Gengar was most likely banned for shadow tag and the fact that Gengar is one of the faster Pokémon without boosts. With several ways to use a combination of priority moves, status inflictors, and strong attack and special attacks- it is definitely on the OP side.

Mega blaziken and regular blaziken with its HA were banned because of its Speed Boost ability. Blaziken was actually starting to be seen as OP in Gen V when the DW abilities were released.
  #23  
Old July 30, 2014, 02:53:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giratina519 View Post
I've used all of these Pokémon and taken the time to asses each one and the reason for their banning.

Mega kangaskhan was banned for obvious reasons and it deserved the ban. The ability was overpowered and the Pokémon itself is rather bulky, meaning by the time you were able to take it out, mega kanga had already obliterated half your team. Not fun.

Mega Gengar was most likely banned for shadow tag and the fact that Gengar is one of the faster Pokémon without boosts. With several ways to use a combination of priority moves, status inflictors, and strong attack and special attacks- it is definitely on the OP side.

Mega blaziken and regular blaziken with its HA were banned because of its Speed Boost ability. Blaziken was actually starting to be seen as OP in Gen V when the DW abilities were released.
I knew that already, i can understand why....But banning a mon from Ubers is just confusing right now. Over time i'll probably forget about it.
  #24  
Old July 30, 2014, 03:17:11 PM
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I think banning stuff from Ubers is more of a symptom of having too many Pokémon and not enough tiers.

Seriously, they've been using the same tier system since at least Gen 4, which was more than 7 years and 200 Pokémon ago. Can't we have a "Sub Uber" and "Uber Uber" or something?
  #25  
Old July 30, 2014, 05:17:13 PM
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I guess that would work, be like a Uber BL tier. But if we had more dang pokemon in the kalos Dex, we would have more stuff the tiers.
  #26  
Old July 30, 2014, 05:55:29 PM
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I have to agree with Dragonite. It's the lack of thorough tier creating. I still respect Smogon because it must have take a lot of work to have even created base tiering for all Pokemon players. But, I do think it needs to be revamped.
  #27  
Old July 31, 2014, 08:08:14 AM
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We should have an OP tier (over-powered) for broken Pokés like mega kang and HA blaziken. That way, they can still be used, but only against other extremely OP or broken Pokémon like themselves. That seems fair.
  #28  
Old July 31, 2014, 09:37:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giratina519 View Post
We should have an OP tier (over-powered) for broken Pokés like mega kang and HA blaziken. That way, they can still be used, but only against other extremely OP or broken Pokémon like themselves. That seems fair.
I can agree to that Who knows if they'll make it happen.
  #29  
Old August 1, 2014, 07:33:04 AM
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However I do think Smogon goes a little overboard with the banning... Hopefully they do add the OP tier, because I hatched and raised a shiny 5IV speed boost Torchic and gave it the blazikenite oping to actually use it... I know, I don't normally use OP or broken Pokémon, but I LOVE mega Blaziken.

BTW, I'm surprised Gale Wings Talonflame hasn't been banned, seeing as it gets priority brave bird and roost, and how it is one of the fastest Pokémon out there. And yeah, Kalos could have used a few more Pokés...

Last edited by giratina519; August 1, 2014 at 07:33:52 AM.
  #30  
Old August 1, 2014, 08:30:08 AM
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Talonflame is SORT of broken, depending on the team you bring, though. Most well built teams with checks to flying spam and stealth rocks handle talonflame quite well. It has lost a tremendous amount of the popularity it had early on in X/Y.
  #31  
Old August 1, 2014, 08:36:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyBrollic View Post
Talonflame is SORT of broken, depending on the team you bring, though. Most well built teams with checks to flying spam and stealth rocks handle talonflame quite well. It has lost a tremendous amount of the popularity it had early on in X/Y.
Yeah, but I use MINE in a special way that seems kinda broken...
  #32  
Old August 1, 2014, 09:39:01 AM
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I always bring a pokemon to counter T-Flame just in case i see one, otherwise if i dont i normally lose.
  #33  
Old August 1, 2014, 10:05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kakashidragon View Post
I always bring a pokemon to counter T-Flame just in case i see one, otherwise if i dont i normally lose.
And that's why. If you need to bring a counter for ONE Pokémon or t could cost you a win, then its definitely broken...
  #34  
Old August 1, 2014, 01:13:44 PM
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The thing about Talonfalme is that aside from its ability and Speed, it's actually pretty bad. Its Attack stat is actually third-lowest of all OU Pokémon that make their living on physical attack, after only Azumarill and Medicham . . . both of whom have Pure Power anyway; it doesn't seem to be able to OHKO many things that aren't weak to it without entry hazards (granted, Flying/Fire isn't a bad offensive combination, but still). Meanwhile, its 78/71/69 defenses are borderline horrible and it itself can get taken down by a number of neutral attacks.

Spoiler Alert:    
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 246-289 (68.7 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 283-334 (70 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 312-367 (44.3 - 52.1%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 235-277 (60.1 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 190-225 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 231-273 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 168-199 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 270-320 (80.8 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 390-459 (130.8 - 154%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 422-498 (141.6 - 167.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Talonflame: 318-375 (106.7 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  #35  
Old August 1, 2014, 02:08:18 PM
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Yes, but my use of talonflame focuses on its speed and its gale wings ability, along with attack boosts from other moves to OHKO even the hardiest of opponents.
  #36  
Old August 1, 2014, 08:21:50 PM
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Talonflame's good for its priority, but let's face it; its Attack is low enough so that it can't reasonably score an unboosted OHKO, even with a Choice Band. Anything with a reasonable amount of bulk can tango with Talonflame and not get hurt too bad. Its STABs are resisted by Rock-types (particularly Tyranitar, who only fears U-turn, Diancie, and Landorus-T because of Intimidate) and which can be exploited on both Choice Band users and Swords Dance/Bulk Up sets (forcing a switch/U-turn). Hippowdon is also a threat due to its huge physical bulk, and Gliscor can be dangerous as well for its bulk, Toxic Orb healing, and Stealth Rock. Most bulky Rock or Ground-types will be carrying Stealth Rock, which spells doom for Talonflame if it's not dealt with by a Spinner or Defogger. Since Stealth Rock is so common, forcing switches out of Talonflame and dealing with their Spinner/Defogger is the best way of terminating Talonflame.

Bulky Water-types (Vaporeon, Unaware Quagsire, Rotom-W on defensive sets...) can usually handle Talonflame as well. Rotom-W particularly doesn't fear Talonflame, resisting both its STABS and being able to retalitate with a Volt Switch or Hydro Pump, and, if Rotom-W is carrying a Choice Scarf, it can pose a threat to Talonflame's Rapid Spinning partner, Excadrill. Furthermore, even the most common Defoggers, Skarmory and Mandibuzz, take super-effective damage from Volt Switch, the former being particularly vulnerable due to its lacking Special Defense. Unaware Quagsire can ignore Talonflame's stat boosts on Swords Dance/Bulk Up sets, and force an unwanted switch with Yawn to remove the stat boosts for other team members.

Heatran is also a threat, immune to Flare Blitz and resisting both Brave Bird and U-turn, but it suffers more from its matchup with Excadrill. Even another spinner, Starmie, can take out Heatran with relative ease. If trying to match up with the Spinners and Defoggers, Rotom-W is the better choice, if only for the case of Talonflame.

Sadly, with the exception of Rotom-W and Heatran, not many of these are common in the OU metagame.
  #37  
Old August 1, 2014, 08:49:31 PM
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But i had some battles where said pokemon gets KOd by T-Flame in one hit even at full HP, and my attacks barley scratch T-Flame.
  #38  
Old August 1, 2014, 09:53:08 PM
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What makes Talonflame so great is its ability to make so many pokemon nearly unviable such as Volcarona, Salamence, and any other set up sweeper that is either weak to or lacks the bulk to take priority brave bird. The only thing that kept mega Blaziken from being banned right away was talonflame.
  #39  
Old August 2, 2014, 02:54:36 PM
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Aegislash has been banned.
  #40  
Old August 2, 2014, 10:53:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyBrollic View Post
Aegislash has been banned.
Really?...Wow! Thats it i hate smogon now. Aegislash is like one of the easiest to counter, they just suck at it. When we do battles here i say let aegislash be used, cause this a joke.

Last edited by kakashidragon; August 2, 2014 at 10:55:37 PM.
  #41  
Old August 2, 2014, 10:58:46 PM
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Even though banning Aegislash might cause my favorite Pokémon to be used more, I think it was a poorly-made ban.

Aegislash's ban will not affect the VRGL, you may still use it if you wish.
  #42  
Old August 2, 2014, 10:59:09 PM
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Aegislash got banned? Wow. It really isn't hard to counter. Christ Smogon get it together, you're banning things for dumb reasons
  #43  
Old August 2, 2014, 11:03:00 PM
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I wonder why there having so much problems with these pokemon this gen. I bet when Ruby/Sapphire remakes come out, they'll change there minds on these bans. But till then im ignoring these current bans they have. (I can still agree on the current megas that are banned)
  #44  
Old August 3, 2014, 10:09:23 AM
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Terrakion now has no counters.
  #45  
Old August 3, 2014, 05:51:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyBrollic View Post
Terrakion now has no counters.
Gliscor says hi.
Intimidate Landorus-T says hi.
Landorus-I says hi.
Unburden-boosted Hawlucha says hi.
Both regular AND Mega Scizor says hi.

These guys can sponge its attacks and counter with Earthquake (for the first 2), High Jump Kick (for Hawlucha), and Bullet Punch (for M-Scizor). Earthquake for both Gliscor and Landorus-T can 2HKO while High Jump Kick OHKOs. Bullet Punch 2HKOs, meaning that Terrakion would have to OHKO to beat M-Scizor. A Bullet Punch backed with Swords Dance easily OHKO's Terrakion.

Unboosted Terrakion cannot OHKO any of those four Pokemon with Stone Edge, and barely leaves a scratch on the first two. It doesn't help for Terrakion to have that 108 base Speed, which pretty much condemns it to using the Choice Scarf. Heck, with the Choice Scarf, Stone Edge can't even OHKO offensive Deoxys-S! However, I didn't put Deoxys-S with them because it would have to run Psycho Boost to reliably OHKO Terrakion.

Also, ALL of Terrakion's most common sets are offensively based, meaning a spread of 252 Attack EV's and 252 Speed EV's with a Jolly Nature for outspeeding w/o Choice Scarf. But I put Adamant Nature for some damage calculations, showing that its power just isn't enough.

Some damage calcs.

Quote:
Gliscor vs. Terrakion

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 224-266 (69.3 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 106-126 (29.9 - 35.5%) -- 2.6% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 117-138 (33 - 38.9%) -- 95.3% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 152-179 (42.9 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 300-355 (84.7 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 168-200 (47.4 - 56.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
Quote:
Landorus-Incarnate vs. Terrakion

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 499-588 (154.4 - 182%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 333-393 (103 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 442-520 (136.8 - 160.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 253-300 (79 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus: 208-250 (65 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Quote:
Landorus-Therian vs. Terrakion

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 390-458 (120.7 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 390-458 (120.7 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Landorus-T Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 206-244 (63.7 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 130-154 (40.6 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 169-200 (52.8 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 160-192 (50 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Quote:
Hawlucha vs. Terrakion

252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 404-476 (125 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 171-202 (52.9 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 340-402 (105.2 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 207-244 (69.4 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 296-348 (99.3 - 116.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Life Orb Terrakion Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hawlucha: 127-151 (42.6 - 50.6%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
Quote:
Scizor vs. Terrakion

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 307-361 (95 - 111.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 611-720 (189.1 - 222.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 354-416 (109.5 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 470-554 (145.5 - 171.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 195-231 (56.6 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 278-329 (80.8 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Quote:
Mega Scizor vs. Terrakion

252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 264-312 (81.7 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 524-618 (162.2 - 191.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 350-412 (108.3 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 234-276 (72.4 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 145-172 (42.1 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 160-190 (46.5 - 55.2%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 208-247 (60.4 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Verdict: Uncounterable? Hardly.

Last edited by GrassPokemonFTW; August 3, 2014 at 05:52:03 PM.
  #46  
Old August 3, 2014, 07:04:26 PM
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Terrakion has, and will forever have the same counters it had last gen.
  #47  
Old August 3, 2014, 09:24:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GrassPokemonFTW View Post
Gliscor says hi.
Intimidate Landorus-T says hi.
Landorus-I says hi.
Unburden-boosted Hawlucha says hi.
Both regular AND Mega Scizor says hi.

These guys can sponge its attacks and counter with Earthquake (for the first 2), High Jump Kick (for Hawlucha), and Bullet Punch (for M-Scizor). Earthquake for both Gliscor and Landorus-T can 2HKO while High Jump Kick OHKOs. Bullet Punch 2HKOs, meaning that Terrakion would have to OHKO to beat M-Scizor. A Bullet Punch backed with Swords Dance easily OHKO's Terrakion.

Unboosted Terrakion cannot OHKO any of those four Pokemon with Stone Edge, and barely leaves a scratch on the first two. It doesn't help for Terrakion to have that 108 base Speed, which pretty much condemns it to using the Choice Scarf. Heck, with the Choice Scarf, Stone Edge can't even OHKO offensive Deoxys-S! However, I didn't put Deoxys-S with them because it would have to run Psycho Boost to reliably OHKO Terrakion.

Also, ALL of Terrakion's most common sets are offensively based, meaning a spread of 252 Attack EV's and 252 Speed EV's with a Jolly Nature for outspeeding w/o Choice Scarf. But I put Adamant Nature for some damage calculations, showing that its power just isn't enough.

Some damage calcs.













Verdict: Uncounterable? Hardly.
Sorry, but you clearly do not understand the definition of a counter. A counter is a Pokemon that can switch in to ANY move from a certain threat and KO back. The only true counter you posted in your list is Gliscor and even it struggles to avoid a 3hko from a life orb stone edge. Terrakion can potentially 1hko or 2hko every other pokemon you mentioned on your list. It out speeds all but Hawlucha who CANNOT switch in safely. Heck, even life orb close combat will do tons to Hawlucha. Hawlucha is hardly relevant in OU so I'm not sure of why you even brought it up. All of these Pokemon are excellent CHECKS but certainly not counters barring Gliscor.
  #48  
Old August 3, 2014, 09:25:33 PM
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AND also, Deoxys-S is banned so I'm not so sure how he is relevant to the matter either.
  #49  
Old August 3, 2014, 10:35:15 PM
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Sorry, but you clearly do not understand the definition of a counter. A counter is a Pokemon that can switch in to ANY move from a certain threat and KO back. The only true counter you posted in your list is Gliscor and even it struggles to avoid a 3hko from a life orb stone edge. Terrakion can potentially 1hko or 2hko every other pokemon you mentioned on your list. It out speeds all but Hawlucha who CANNOT switch in safely. Heck, even life orb close combat will do tons to Hawlucha. Hawlucha is hardly relevant in OU so I'm not sure of why you even brought it up. All of these Pokemon are excellent CHECKS but certainly not counters barring Gliscor.
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Originally Posted by MattyBrollic View Post
AND also, Deoxys-S is banned so I'm not so sure how he is relevant to the matter either.
On quote 2: Oops, that was my mistake. I thought for a moment it had not been Uber. And besides it was not relevant ultimately anyways.

On Gliscor: If it manages to avoid even a 2HKO, it can reliably at least draw Terrakion one-on-one. Because Gliscor can 2HKO back and only fears if Terrakion is using a Life Orb, the Life Orb recoil will ultimately do Terrakion in after an Earthquake hit from Gliscor. As such, a full-HP Gliscor can come in, take two hits from Stone Edge, retaliate with Earthquake, and IF it fails to KO (which there is a reasonable chance for Terrakion to survive) Terrakion will faint due to Life Orb recoil on the third hit.

On Hawlucha: Sure, Hawlucha isn't a relevant threat - because Aegislash was its ultimate counter. With it gone, Hawlucha has one less threat to manage. That could be the reason it has been in BL - but I digress, that is besides the point. But yeah, Hawlucha's ability to handle Terrakion upon switching into a move is very shaky; Stone Edge can OHKO Hawlucha, although if it misses Terrakion's a dead man walking. But not a reliable counter, so we'll move on...

On Scizor: Scizor's a circumstantial counter, dependent on no entry hazards. Assuming no entry hazards, Scizor can take a Close Combat from Adamant Life Orb Terrakion and OHKO back with Bullet Punch. With entry hazards Scizor can't counter, but that's what spinners and defoggers are for. Still, if this pans out, Scizor can Mega Evolve and KO back with Bullet Punch. Not really a counter, but hey, at least it has a chance of winning on its own.

On Landorus: Yeah, they can't switch in well. Well, Landorus-T can take on Choice Scarf sets, but...eh.


Also, in theory, then, isn't Aegislash not even a counter? If Terrakion is running Earthquake (which it really should) it can 2HKO Aegislash (in Shield form) even with Leftovers recovery, provided Terrakion is running the Adamant Life Orb set. If it's running the Choice Scarf Jolly set, it only has a 25% chance to 2HKO, but even then, other Pokémon can handle the Choice Scarf sets, like Scizor and Gliscor. However, assuming Aegislash holds Leftovers...

Quote:
Aegislash (with Leftovers) vs. Terrakion

252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 262-310 (81.1 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 88-105 (27.2 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 221-260 (68.2 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 82-97 (25.3 - 29.9%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
If Aegislash switches into a predicted switch and gets slammed by Earthquake, it's done for. Shadow Sneak barely does anything and can get screwed by its Stance Change. If Aegislash switches into Stone Edge, then it can still have a reasonable chance of being KO'd by Earthquake. Even if the Aegislash was holding a Weakness Policy, Aegislash can be outsped and KO'd with Earthquake, with Shadow Sneak only doing about 55-60%. So, in theory, it can't really threaten Terrakion in that way. But if it was holding a Life Orb...

Quote:
Aegislash (with Life Orb) vs. Terrakion
252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 341-403 (105.5 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 114-136 (35.2 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 221-260 (68.2 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 82-97 (25.3 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Here I can see there being a counter. However, still, if Aegislash is hit by a Earthquake when switching in, it's done for, only being able to pull off a little damage with Shadow Sneak before being done in. However, if Aegislash switches into a Stone Edge, if BOTH attacks (Stone Edge then Earthquake) do the BARE MINIMUM, Terrakion will do 93.5% damage: enough to have Aegislash KO itself from Life Orb recoil. So it's either a loss or a draw; Aegislash couldn't even beat Terrakion one-on-one. Kinda like Gliscor.

So, sure, I'll bite. Terrakion, given this definition of a counter, never had any counters to begin with. Except maybe 252 HP and Defense EV Slowbro. But who uses that?
EDIT: You know you're scraping the bottom of the barrel when you try to find a counter in frikin' Claydol of all things...

Last edited by GrassPokemonFTW; August 3, 2014 at 10:40:55 PM.
  #50  
Old August 3, 2014, 10:45:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrassPokemonFTW View Post
On quote 2: Oops, that was my mistake. I thought for a moment it had not been Uber. And besides it was not relevant ultimately anyways.

On Gliscor: If it manages to avoid even a 2HKO, it can reliably at least draw Terrakion one-on-one. Because Gliscor can 2HKO back and only fears if Terrakion is using a Life Orb, the Life Orb recoil will ultimately do Terrakion in after an Earthquake hit from Gliscor. As such, a full-HP Gliscor can come in, take two hits from Stone Edge, retaliate with Earthquake, and IF it fails to KO (which there is a reasonable chance for Terrakion to survive) Terrakion will faint due to Life Orb recoil on the third hit.

On Hawlucha: Sure, Hawlucha isn't a relevant threat - because Aegislash was its ultimate counter. With it gone, Hawlucha has one less threat to manage. That could be the reason it has been in BL - but I digress, that is besides the point. But yeah, Hawlucha's ability to handle Terrakion upon switching into a move is very shaky; Stone Edge can OHKO Hawlucha, although if it misses Terrakion's a dead man walking. But not a reliable counter, so we'll move on...

On Scizor: Scizor's a circumstantial counter, dependent on no entry hazards. Assuming no entry hazards, Scizor can take a Close Combat from Adamant Life Orb Terrakion and OHKO back with Bullet Punch. With entry hazards Scizor can't counter, but that's what spinners and defoggers are for. Still, if this pans out, Scizor can Mega Evolve and KO back with Bullet Punch. Not really a counter, but hey, at least it has a chance of winning on its own.

On Landorus: Yeah, they can't switch in well. Well, Landorus-T can take on Choice Scarf sets, but...eh.


Also, in theory, then, isn't Aegislash not even a counter? If Terrakion is running Earthquake (which it really should) it can 2HKO Aegislash (in Shield form) even with Leftovers recovery, provided Terrakion is running the Adamant Life Orb set. If it's running the Choice Scarf Jolly set, it only has a 25% chance to 2HKO, but even then, other Pokémon can handle the Choice Scarf sets, like Scizor and Gliscor. However, assuming Aegislash holds Leftovers...



If Aegislash switches into a predicted switch and gets slammed by Earthquake, it's done for. Shadow Sneak barely does anything and can get screwed by its Stance Change. If Aegislash switches into Stone Edge, then it can still have a reasonable chance of being KO'd by Earthquake. Even if the Aegislash was holding a Weakness Policy, Aegislash can be outsped and KO'd with Earthquake, with Shadow Sneak only doing about 55-60%. So, in theory, it can't really threaten Terrakion in that way. But if it was holding a Life Orb...



Here I can see there being a counter. However, still, if Aegislash is hit by a Earthquake when switching in, it's done for, only being able to pull off a little damage with Shadow Sneak before being done in. However, if Aegislash switches into a Stone Edge, if BOTH attacks (Stone Edge then Earthquake) do the BARE MINIMUM, Terrakion will do 93.5% damage: enough to have Aegislash KO itself from Life Orb recoil. So it's either a loss or a draw; Aegislash couldn't even beat Terrakion one-on-one. Kinda like Gliscor.

So, sure, I'll bite. Terrakion, given this definition of a counter, never had any counters to begin with. Except maybe 252 HP and Defense EV Slowbro. But who uses that?
Terrakion is fairly easily played around. It can be a nightmare to switch into, though. Most Terrakions were running eq for Aegi which made air baloon Aegi more popular. Now that Aegi is gone, most people run stone edge close combat stealth rock and taunt to allow Terrakion to perform multiple roles other than being the usual terrifying wall breaker/sweeper it already was and still is. I have seen it growing in popularity immensley atop the sh0down ladder over the past couple of days, it is almost funny to see how much the Aegi ban helped it.
  #51  
Old August 3, 2014, 10:57:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MattyBrollic View Post
Terrakion is fairly easily played around. It can be a nightmare to switch into, though. Most Terrakions were running eq for Aegi which made air baloon Aegi more popular. Now that Aegi is gone, most people run stone edge close combat stealth rock and taunt to allow Terrakion to perform multiple roles other than being the usual terrifying wall breaker/sweeper it already was and still is. I have seen it growing in popularity immensley atop the sh0down ladder over the past couple of days, it is almost funny to see how much the Aegi ban helped it.
Here's what I end up conceding from here: Terrakion, unless you get lucky, will pluck off one of your members if you're not careful, and the user of the Terrakion knows what he's/she's doing.

The times I have fought it, either the user made a huge mistake, I had to make a sacrifice, or I was already well on my way to a sweep. But yeah, now I hear a lot of people complaining about Mega Mawile, and I'm just over here thinking how silly that is.
  #52  
Old August 4, 2014, 06:31:48 AM
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What is really making Terrakion so deadly is that on top of being a wall breaker, the amount of choice scarf users has largely decreased, allowing Terrakion to outspeed and either KO or badly damage many Pokemon that would otherwise out speed it with a scarf. This opens up huge holes for Priority spam and other forms of Hyper Offense.
  #53  
Old August 4, 2014, 09:17:05 AM
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Isnt the damage different at lv50? Cause i use terrakion over wifi and it loses alot, even lifeorb attacks dont do much.
  #54  
Old August 4, 2014, 09:22:12 AM
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Originally Posted by kakashidragon View Post
Isnt the damage different at lv50? Cause i use terrakion over wifi and it loses alot, even lifeorb attacks dont do much.
There is actually more damage on level 50 which makes Terrakion a little stronger on level 50. Im not saying he is OP or anything of the sort, but he can be very very difficult to switch into if you can predict correctly. He is otherwise fairly frail and has a bad defensive typing making him relatively easy to revenge kill.
  #55  
Old August 4, 2014, 06:08:47 PM
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Even so, there aren't many priority moves that'll hit Terrakion hard enough besides Talonflame (lol) and Scizor being your best bet. Sucker Punch, nope. Extremespeed, nope. Even if it's typing is bad defensively, enemy priority users don't really threaten Terrakion as much and that Scizor switching in is gonna eat up a strong EQ.

Can't believe Aegislash is banned! That's crazy! You just had to know what item it had to fight around it! D:
  #56  
Old August 4, 2014, 06:32:29 PM
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Even so, there aren't many priority moves that'll hit Terrakion hard enough besides Talonflame (lol) and Scizor being your best bet. Sucker Punch, nope. Extremespeed, nope. Even if it's typing is bad defensively, enemy priority users don't really threaten Terrakion as much and that Scizor switching in is gonna eat up a strong EQ.

Can't believe Aegislash is banned! That's crazy! You just had to know what item it had to fight around it! D:
You're right! Terrakion was not easily picked off by priority. Conk threatens it with mach punch but does not like taking a close combat. And yes I know. Aegislash was certainly top-tier but not OP by any means in my opinion.
  #57  
Old August 4, 2014, 10:09:15 PM
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You're right! Terrakion was not easily picked off by priority. Conk threatens it with mach punch but does not like taking a close combat. And yes I know. Aegislash was certainly top-tier but not OP by any means in my opinion.
I agree hes OP but my terrakion dies to quick. And aegislash should be OU still, cause we all battled with it here on VR and all of ours got KOd easily. T-Flame on the other hand is staring to be excadrill from 5th gen to where i had to bring Conkelderr on my team just to counter it during Sand teams. (Which i always lost to in 5th gen before he was Uber)
  #58  
Old August 6, 2014, 01:49:06 PM
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Kakashi you were right. Mawilite is being suspected.
  #59  
Old August 6, 2014, 01:53:39 PM
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Mawilite is being suspected.
HECK NO D:<
Why is smogon trying to ban all of my favorite megas?
  #60  
Old August 6, 2014, 07:50:49 PM
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I draw the line with this smogon crap. Would u all agree that we consider not banning aegislash & Mawilite here on VR and ignore smogon's bans as of late? At least till Alpha Sapphire & Omega Ruby come out? Cause who knows what can counter these mons then. (Im pretty sure Mega Metagross will have aegislash back in OU anyways)
  #61  
Old August 6, 2014, 08:14:22 PM
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I draw the line with this smogon crap. Would u all agree that we consider not banning aegislash & Mawilite here on VR and ignore smogon's bans as of late? At least till Alpha Sapphire & Omega Ruby come out? Cause who knows what can counter these mons then. (Im pretty sure Mega Metagross will have aegislash back in OU anyways)
Yea I'm pretty sure most of us can agree to that. If anything I found Mawile to be tougher to face than Aegislash. But nonetheless, I didn't believe that either were OP and too much for the OU meta.
  #62  
Old August 6, 2014, 08:20:42 PM
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Heck i hardly see either one of these two over the wifi battles i do, even when i do i usually have no problems with them. If someone needs be Uber i would pick TalonFlame.

Last edited by kakashidragon; August 6, 2014 at 08:21:36 PM.
  #63  
Old August 6, 2014, 08:29:01 PM
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Heck i hardly see either one of these two over the wifi battles i do, even when i do i usually have no problems with them. If someone needs be Uber i would pick TalonFlame.
Talon is tough too, but Mawile is sooooo hard to switch into and sets up swords dance and substitutes so easily because of its high bulk and incredible defensive typing. Access to sucker punch allows it to wreck so many of its would-be checks. May Arceus help you if its at +2.
  #64  
Old August 7, 2014, 09:37:12 AM
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Talon is tough too, but Mawile is sooooo hard to switch into and sets up swords dance and substitutes so easily because of its high bulk and incredible defensive typing. Access to sucker punch allows it to wreck so many of its would-be checks. May Arceus help you if its at +2.
You just gotta play smart Smogonites in this past month just aren't smart enough anymore.
  #65  
Old August 7, 2014, 10:43:35 AM
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You just gotta play smart Smogonites in this past month just aren't smart enough anymore.
Hahahaha true.
  #66  
Old August 7, 2014, 02:33:55 PM
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That's true, I forgot about Conk. That thing is a a problem on it's own though, as having a Psychic type isn't reliable with the extremely common Dark moves in movesets and priority. Faires serve better than Psychic now, too, but we haven't really gotten any strong Fairy type Pokemon. Or Poison, which I really think is underrated.

Mawile is a way bigger problem than Aegislash. Knock Off easily hinders it while hitting super effective. Sucker Punch. Or you can totally avoid hitting super effective with strong Water moves or residual damage for that Weakness Policy set. I disagree with Aegislash's ban, but not Mawile.
  #67  
Old August 9, 2014, 12:14:58 AM
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To be fair, I was very happy with Aegislash getting the ban hammer. King's Shield was completely NUTS and nerfed anything not using EQ. If you didn't have that, HAHAHAHAHAHA you were mostly screwed either way. Since hitting Aegislash for guaranteed OHKO relied on Aegislash being in attack position. (most OU threats would outspeed Aegislash, so there was honestly no point, and King's Shield would guarantee his defensive form again) Not a lot could stop him except for a very few select Pokemon. (Char X/Y, Diggersby, Dugtrio, Heatran, and very few competitive mons that I can really think of, but most of his counters were mainly terrible mons such as Malamar, man I wish he had better stats)

Last edited by Charizard98; August 9, 2014 at 12:15:50 AM.
  #68  
Old August 9, 2014, 05:33:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Charizard98 View Post
To be fair, I was very happy with Aegislash getting the ban hammer. King's Shield was completely NUTS and nerfed anything not using EQ. If you didn't have that, HAHAHAHAHAHA you were mostly screwed either way. Since hitting Aegislash for guaranteed OHKO relied on Aegislash being in attack position. (most OU threats would outspeed Aegislash, so there was honestly no point, and King's Shield would guarantee his defensive form again) Not a lot could stop him except for a very few select Pokemon. (Char X/Y, Diggersby, Dugtrio, Heatran, and very few competitive mons that I can really think of, but most of his counters were mainly terrible mons such as Malamar, man I wish he had better stats)
You could always burn it or taunt to bypass that. It's been done to me before which is an obvious switch or the cost of losing. Aegislash required excellent predicting, both in using it and going against it. I thought it was pretty balanced, being a Pokemon that can offer a whole lot to your team, but can easily become fainted with a misprediction. Unlike other Pokemon where you can just slap 3 moves and completely obliterate teams with excellent stab coverage (Terrakion!!)
  #69  
Old August 9, 2014, 03:57:10 PM
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Im pretty sure the next new games will bring some new st7ff to stop these recent bans, and bring some of these back OU. Till then tho, im not following Smogon's current OU bans. (I guess i can agree with the Mega gengar ban from Ubers)
  #70  
Old August 22, 2014, 03:00:27 PM
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Well Mega Mawile got banned. Maybe its for best on this one, but i still find that Mega Mawile should replace Aegislash for the banning.
  #71  
Old August 22, 2014, 03:25:23 PM
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Well Mega Mawile got banned. Maybe its for best on this one, but i still find that Mega Mawile should replace Aegislash for the banning.
YES! I was just about to go online for this, I talking with my bro in the car about which would be the next Pokemon to get banned to ubers. I said Mega Mawile would be banned to ubers due to amazing sweep potential, and he thought what I said was crazy. So glad I proved him wrong. Now if only they can ban Mega Gyarados. Then the metagame will be a-ok with me.
  #72  
Old August 23, 2014, 08:46:48 PM
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YES! I was just about to go online for this, I talking with my bro in the car about which would be the next Pokemon to get banned to ubers. I said Mega Mawile would be banned to ubers due to amazing sweep potential, and he thought what I said was crazy. So glad I proved him wrong. Now if only they can ban Mega Gyarados. Then the metagame will be a-ok with me.
Wait, why Mega Gyardos? I never had a problem with it yet. Then again, I haven't fought many since everyone just uses Kangaskahn, Mawile, or Gengar.
  #73  
Old August 24, 2014, 04:40:26 PM
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I don't know about that, actually. So far I've actually fought better with regular Gyarados. Bite, Dark Pulse and Payback are the only Dark STABS it picks up, currently; Bite is too weak, Dark Pulse is special and Payback relies on moving last, after its only Attack-boosting move is Dragon Dance.

You could make an argument for having Mold Breaker to deal with Rotom and the uncommon Eelektross, but I also prefer Moxie because of the amazing sweeping potential if you're able to get some hazards up and break the Sturdies and Sashes.
  #74  
Old August 24, 2014, 08:00:57 PM
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I don't know about that, actually. So far I've actually fought better with regular Gyarados. Bite, Dark Pulse and Payback are the only Dark STABS it picks up, currently; Bite is too weak, Dark Pulse is special and Payback relies on moving last, after its only Attack-boosting move is Dragon Dance.

You could make an argument for having Mold Breaker to deal with Rotom and the uncommon Eelektross, but I also prefer Moxie because of the amazing sweeping potential if you're able to get some hazards up and break the Sturdies and Sashes.
Mega Gyarados is currently one of the best megas in OU because of its incredible ability to set up with intimidate, a great defensive typing and awesome bulk. One of the best draws to Gyara is ita ability to break stall which is a dominant play style right now. Its best set BY FAR is DD, waterfall, EQ, and ice fang. Forget about a dark stab. Mold Breaker ignores the ubiquotous unaware Quagsire and Clefable who are able to check most set up sweepers. EQ hits Rotom and ice fang hits through Mega Venus thick fat and Dragonites multiscale. It is an excellent mon.
  #75  
Old August 25, 2014, 07:52:21 PM
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I hear mega Charizard-X will next on Smogon's suspect testing. But i can see why tho, its a beast.
  #76  
Old August 25, 2014, 08:21:43 PM
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Thundurus first, I believe.
  #77  
Old August 25, 2014, 08:36:05 PM
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I didnt have problems with thunderus even in 5th gen. (Actully i only have seen 1 thunderus used on wifi)
  #78  
Old August 28, 2014, 11:05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MattyBrollic View Post
Mega Gyarados is currently one of the best megas in OU because of its incredible ability to set up with intimidate, a great defensive typing and awesome bulk. One of the best draws to Gyara is ita ability to break stall which is a dominant play style right now. Its best set BY FAR is DD, waterfall, EQ, and ice fang. Forget about a dark stab. Mold Breaker ignores the ubiquotous unaware Quagsire and Clefable who are able to check most set up sweepers. EQ hits Rotom and ice fang hits through Mega Venus thick fat and Dragonites multiscale. It is an excellent mon.
I didn't think of that. I forgot everyone uses Rotom so eh. I think keeping it OU is fine. Anything is scary after DD. I feel the same about Charizard X. I'm surprised it's being suspected before Charizard Y.

Edit: Oh, Thundurus. Really annoying to face. I never saw the Defiant sets until this gen which works me up cause I love me some Mega Manectric.

Last edited by Sub-zero; August 28, 2014 at 11:07:07 AM.
  #79  
Old August 28, 2014, 01:07:30 PM
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Charizard X has a pretty decent sweeping potential, but so far I've found that there are plenty of ways to stop it. More of a challenge if the user remembered to teach it Roost, but status, Stealth Rocks on the field, Roar, and the other usual rampage-blocking strategies are all applicable with Charizard. Fire/Dragon is a decent offensive typing, but defensively it leaves a lot to be desired (especially with how common Earthquake and Stone Edge are).

Tough Claws ain't bad, considering most of its common moves make contact, but other than that Its defenses (78/111/85) are mediocre at best and the base Speed (100) is the same as normal Charizard, which isn't very high on the standards of most X/Y OU attackers. So I don't see good ol' Mega X going anywhere any day soon, especially if and when ORAS bring some even bigger monsters to the table.

Then again, Smogon's been confusing even me lately, with what they do and don't ban, so I'm probably wrong.
  #80  
Old August 29, 2014, 08:51:42 AM
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I see them banning them banning it, then they'll regret they did ban it when the next games come out.
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Old August 31, 2014, 01:43:17 AM
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I still feel Charizard Y is a bigger threat than X. X requires to set up while Y can go ahead and hit whatever with a Fire move boosted with Sun and STAB. Not to mention Charizard has an ok Special movepool. X either has to sacrifice EQ for Roost or vice versa. I feel Gyarados is a bigger threat since it passes through Unaware.
 
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