#6
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Wait, why Mega Gengar? I know Shadow Tag is a very powerful ability.. Well, makes sense, kinda. I'd think stuff like Speed or Atk Deoxys would take it out easily. Don't play Ubers, so I dunno. I didn't have as big as a problem from it before but I dunno.
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#7
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Found out after checking there post, that they might just ban Shadow Tag ability all to togther. They did mention something about banning wobbufett and the Gothirita line to, but it might be just the ability of them.
Last edited by kakashidragon; July 27, 2014 at 09:23:34 AM. |
#14
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Someone from this facebook group im in. (There actually good battlers, im going to battle them more often for good practice) He had posted about like a few hours ago. But i havnt checked smogon yet to see if its true. *Goes check right now*
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#18
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The convenient thing about Smogon is that you don't have to listen to their "bans".
They just so happen to be the #1 competitive battle community, but that doesn't mean everything they say is law. Back when they tried to 'ban' Excadrill in 5th gen I just laughed and used him on my team(s) anyways. Competitive battling is fun, and that should always be the inherit rule of battling against someone else. Fun. I give credit to Smogon for creating an established metagame "blueprint", but at the end of the day that is all they are. A blueprint. |
#20
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Wait, ban Aegislash? Why? With all the Sucker Punch/Foul Play running around, it's awesome getting +2 on your attacking stats! D: I've been beaten by players just using neutral attacks, since lack of recovery kills that set. The Substitute set is interesting, though. Gotta admit. I also didn't know it can be a dual screen.
I can see Mawile being banned, but I've worked around it pretty well. Sucker Punch in general since it's easy to tell what Pokemon run it. MGengar... I dunno. I thought the Uber ban was fine. They can't still possibly be banning it for Parish Song, are they? |
#21
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Well i really dont care anymore unless im going to play there ladders (which im not sure i will) but the Ruby & Sapphire remakes havnt been released yet so the Meta-game will change more when those new Mega pokemon come out. (So far the starters, Metagross & Diancie)
But a few bans of theres i actually like. Its just Banning a pokemon from Ubers is just to far i think. |
#22
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I've used all of these Pokémon and taken the time to asses each one and the reason for their banning.
Mega kangaskhan was banned for obvious reasons and it deserved the ban. The ability was overpowered and the Pokémon itself is rather bulky, meaning by the time you were able to take it out, mega kanga had already obliterated half your team. Not fun. Mega Gengar was most likely banned for shadow tag and the fact that Gengar is one of the faster Pokémon without boosts. With several ways to use a combination of priority moves, status inflictors, and strong attack and special attacks- it is definitely on the OP side. Mega blaziken and regular blaziken with its HA were banned because of its Speed Boost ability. Blaziken was actually starting to be seen as OP in Gen V when the DW abilities were released. |
#23
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#24
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I think banning stuff from Ubers is more of a symptom of having too many Pokémon and not enough tiers.
Seriously, they've been using the same tier system since at least Gen 4, which was more than 7 years and 200 Pokémon ago. Can't we have a "Sub Uber" and "Uber Uber" or something? |
#26
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I have to agree with Dragonite. It's the lack of thorough tier creating. I still respect Smogon because it must have take a lot of work to have even created base tiering for all Pokemon players. But, I do think it needs to be revamped.
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#29
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However I do think Smogon goes a little overboard with the banning... Hopefully they do add the OP tier, because I hatched and raised a shiny 5IV speed boost Torchic and gave it the blazikenite oping to actually use it... I know, I don't normally use OP or broken Pokémon, but I LOVE mega Blaziken.
BTW, I'm surprised Gale Wings Talonflame hasn't been banned, seeing as it gets priority brave bird and roost, and how it is one of the fastest Pokémon out there. And yeah, Kalos could have used a few more Pokés... Last edited by giratina519; August 1, 2014 at 07:33:52 AM. |
#31
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Yeah, but I use MINE in a special way that seems kinda broken...
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#33
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And that's why. If you need to bring a counter for ONE Pokémon or t could cost you a win, then its definitely broken...
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#34
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The thing about Talonfalme is that aside from its ability and Speed, it's actually pretty bad. Its Attack stat is actually third-lowest of all OU Pokémon that make their living on physical attack, after only Azumarill and Medicham . . . both of whom have Pure Power anyway; it doesn't seem to be able to OHKO many things that aren't weak to it without entry hazards (granted, Flying/Fire isn't a bad offensive combination, but still). Meanwhile, its 78/71/69 defenses are borderline horrible and it itself can get taken down by a number of neutral attacks.
Spoiler Alert:
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#36
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Talonflame's good for its priority, but let's face it; its Attack is low enough so that it can't reasonably score an unboosted OHKO, even with a Choice Band. Anything with a reasonable amount of bulk can tango with Talonflame and not get hurt too bad. Its STABs are resisted by Rock-types (particularly Tyranitar, who only fears U-turn, Diancie, and Landorus-T because of Intimidate) and which can be exploited on both Choice Band users and Swords Dance/Bulk Up sets (forcing a switch/U-turn). Hippowdon is also a threat due to its huge physical bulk, and Gliscor can be dangerous as well for its bulk, Toxic Orb healing, and Stealth Rock. Most bulky Rock or Ground-types will be carrying Stealth Rock, which spells doom for Talonflame if it's not dealt with by a Spinner or Defogger. Since Stealth Rock is so common, forcing switches out of Talonflame and dealing with their Spinner/Defogger is the best way of terminating Talonflame.
Bulky Water-types (Vaporeon, Unaware Quagsire, Rotom-W on defensive sets...) can usually handle Talonflame as well. Rotom-W particularly doesn't fear Talonflame, resisting both its STABS and being able to retalitate with a Volt Switch or Hydro Pump, and, if Rotom-W is carrying a Choice Scarf, it can pose a threat to Talonflame's Rapid Spinning partner, Excadrill. Furthermore, even the most common Defoggers, Skarmory and Mandibuzz, take super-effective damage from Volt Switch, the former being particularly vulnerable due to its lacking Special Defense. Unaware Quagsire can ignore Talonflame's stat boosts on Swords Dance/Bulk Up sets, and force an unwanted switch with Yawn to remove the stat boosts for other team members. Heatran is also a threat, immune to Flare Blitz and resisting both Brave Bird and U-turn, but it suffers more from its matchup with Excadrill. Even another spinner, Starmie, can take out Heatran with relative ease. If trying to match up with the Spinners and Defoggers, Rotom-W is the better choice, if only for the case of Talonflame. Sadly, with the exception of Rotom-W and Heatran, not many of these are common in the OU metagame. |
#38
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What makes Talonflame so great is its ability to make so many pokemon nearly unviable such as Volcarona, Salamence, and any other set up sweeper that is either weak to or lacks the bulk to take priority brave bird. The only thing that kept mega Blaziken from being banned right away was talonflame.
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#40
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Really?...Wow! Thats it i hate smogon now. Aegislash is like one of the easiest to counter, they just suck at it. When we do battles here i say let aegislash be used, cause this a joke.
Last edited by kakashidragon; August 2, 2014 at 10:55:37 PM. |
#43
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I wonder why there having so much problems with these pokemon this gen. I bet when Ruby/Sapphire remakes come out, they'll change there minds on these bans. But till then im ignoring these current bans they have. (I can still agree on the current megas that are banned)
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#45
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Gliscor says hi.
Intimidate Landorus-T says hi. Landorus-I says hi. Unburden-boosted Hawlucha says hi. Both regular AND Mega Scizor says hi. These guys can sponge its attacks and counter with Earthquake (for the first 2), High Jump Kick (for Hawlucha), and Bullet Punch (for M-Scizor). Earthquake for both Gliscor and Landorus-T can 2HKO while High Jump Kick OHKOs. Bullet Punch 2HKOs, meaning that Terrakion would have to OHKO to beat M-Scizor. A Bullet Punch backed with Swords Dance easily OHKO's Terrakion. Unboosted Terrakion cannot OHKO any of those four Pokemon with Stone Edge, and barely leaves a scratch on the first two. It doesn't help for Terrakion to have that 108 base Speed, which pretty much condemns it to using the Choice Scarf. Heck, with the Choice Scarf, Stone Edge can't even OHKO offensive Deoxys-S! However, I didn't put Deoxys-S with them because it would have to run Psycho Boost to reliably OHKO Terrakion. Also, ALL of Terrakion's most common sets are offensively based, meaning a spread of 252 Attack EV's and 252 Speed EV's with a Jolly Nature for outspeeding w/o Choice Scarf. But I put Adamant Nature for some damage calculations, showing that its power just isn't enough. Some damage calcs. Quote:
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Last edited by GrassPokemonFTW; August 3, 2014 at 05:52:03 PM. |
#47
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#49
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On Gliscor: If it manages to avoid even a 2HKO, it can reliably at least draw Terrakion one-on-one. Because Gliscor can 2HKO back and only fears if Terrakion is using a Life Orb, the Life Orb recoil will ultimately do Terrakion in after an Earthquake hit from Gliscor. As such, a full-HP Gliscor can come in, take two hits from Stone Edge, retaliate with Earthquake, and IF it fails to KO (which there is a reasonable chance for Terrakion to survive) Terrakion will faint due to Life Orb recoil on the third hit. On Hawlucha: Sure, Hawlucha isn't a relevant threat - because Aegislash was its ultimate counter. With it gone, Hawlucha has one less threat to manage. That could be the reason it has been in BL - but I digress, that is besides the point. But yeah, Hawlucha's ability to handle Terrakion upon switching into a move is very shaky; Stone Edge can OHKO Hawlucha, although if it misses Terrakion's a dead man walking. But not a reliable counter, so we'll move on... On Scizor: Scizor's a circumstantial counter, dependent on no entry hazards. Assuming no entry hazards, Scizor can take a Close Combat from Adamant Life Orb Terrakion and OHKO back with Bullet Punch. With entry hazards Scizor can't counter, but that's what spinners and defoggers are for. Still, if this pans out, Scizor can Mega Evolve and KO back with Bullet Punch. Not really a counter, but hey, at least it has a chance of winning on its own. On Landorus: Yeah, they can't switch in well. Well, Landorus-T can take on Choice Scarf sets, but...eh. Also, in theory, then, isn't Aegislash not even a counter? If Terrakion is running Earthquake (which it really should) it can 2HKO Aegislash (in Shield form) even with Leftovers recovery, provided Terrakion is running the Adamant Life Orb set. If it's running the Choice Scarf Jolly set, it only has a 25% chance to 2HKO, but even then, other Pokémon can handle the Choice Scarf sets, like Scizor and Gliscor. However, assuming Aegislash holds Leftovers... Quote:
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So, sure, I'll bite. Terrakion, given this definition of a counter, never had any counters to begin with. Except maybe 252 HP and Defense EV Slowbro. But who uses that? EDIT: You know you're scraping the bottom of the barrel when you try to find a counter in frikin' Claydol of all things... Last edited by GrassPokemonFTW; August 3, 2014 at 10:40:55 PM. |
#50
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#51
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The times I have fought it, either the user made a huge mistake, I had to make a sacrifice, or I was already well on my way to a sweep. But yeah, now I hear a lot of people complaining about Mega Mawile, and I'm just over here thinking how silly that is. |
#52
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What is really making Terrakion so deadly is that on top of being a wall breaker, the amount of choice scarf users has largely decreased, allowing Terrakion to outspeed and either KO or badly damage many Pokemon that would otherwise out speed it with a scarf. This opens up huge holes for Priority spam and other forms of Hyper Offense.
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#54
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There is actually more damage on level 50 which makes Terrakion a little stronger on level 50. Im not saying he is OP or anything of the sort, but he can be very very difficult to switch into if you can predict correctly. He is otherwise fairly frail and has a bad defensive typing making him relatively easy to revenge kill.
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#55
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Even so, there aren't many priority moves that'll hit Terrakion hard enough besides Talonflame (lol) and Scizor being your best bet. Sucker Punch, nope. Extremespeed, nope. Even if it's typing is bad defensively, enemy priority users don't really threaten Terrakion as much and that Scizor switching in is gonna eat up a strong EQ.
Can't believe Aegislash is banned! That's crazy! You just had to know what item it had to fight around it! D: |
#56
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#57
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I agree hes OP but my terrakion dies to quick. And aegislash should be OU still, cause we all battled with it here on VR and all of ours got KOd easily. T-Flame on the other hand is staring to be excadrill from 5th gen to where i had to bring Conkelderr on my team just to counter it during Sand teams. (Which i always lost to in 5th gen before he was Uber)
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#60
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I draw the line with this smogon crap. Would u all agree that we consider not banning aegislash & Mawilite here on VR and ignore smogon's bans as of late? At least till Alpha Sapphire & Omega Ruby come out? Cause who knows what can counter these mons then. (Im pretty sure Mega Metagross will have aegislash back in OU anyways)
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#61
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#62
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Heck i hardly see either one of these two over the wifi battles i do, even when i do i usually have no problems with them. If someone needs be Uber i would pick TalonFlame.
Last edited by kakashidragon; August 6, 2014 at 08:21:36 PM. |
#63
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Talon is tough too, but Mawile is sooooo hard to switch into and sets up swords dance and substitutes so easily because of its high bulk and incredible defensive typing. Access to sucker punch allows it to wreck so many of its would-be checks. May Arceus help you if its at +2.
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#64
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#66
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That's true, I forgot about Conk. That thing is a a problem on it's own though, as having a Psychic type isn't reliable with the extremely common Dark moves in movesets and priority. Faires serve better than Psychic now, too, but we haven't really gotten any strong Fairy type Pokemon. Or Poison, which I really think is underrated.
Mawile is a way bigger problem than Aegislash. Knock Off easily hinders it while hitting super effective. Sucker Punch. Or you can totally avoid hitting super effective with strong Water moves or residual damage for that Weakness Policy set. I disagree with Aegislash's ban, but not Mawile. |
#67
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To be fair, I was very happy with Aegislash getting the ban hammer. King's Shield was completely NUTS and nerfed anything not using EQ. If you didn't have that, HAHAHAHAHAHA you were mostly screwed either way. Since hitting Aegislash for guaranteed OHKO relied on Aegislash being in attack position. (most OU threats would outspeed Aegislash, so there was honestly no point, and King's Shield would guarantee his defensive form again) Not a lot could stop him except for a very few select Pokemon. (Char X/Y, Diggersby, Dugtrio, Heatran, and very few competitive mons that I can really think of, but most of his counters were mainly terrible mons such as Malamar, man I wish he had better stats)
Last edited by Charizard98; August 9, 2014 at 12:15:50 AM. |
#68
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#69
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Im pretty sure the next new games will bring some new st7ff to stop these recent bans, and bring some of these back OU. Till then tho, im not following Smogon's current OU bans. (I guess i can agree with the Mega gengar ban from Ubers)
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#71
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YES! I was just about to go online for this, I talking with my bro in the car about which would be the next Pokemon to get banned to ubers. I said Mega Mawile would be banned to ubers due to amazing sweep potential, and he thought what I said was crazy. So glad I proved him wrong. Now if only they can ban Mega Gyarados. Then the metagame will be a-ok with me.
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#72
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#73
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I don't know about that, actually. So far I've actually fought better with regular Gyarados. Bite, Dark Pulse and Payback are the only Dark STABS it picks up, currently; Bite is too weak, Dark Pulse is special and Payback relies on moving last, after its only Attack-boosting move is Dragon Dance.
You could make an argument for having Mold Breaker to deal with Rotom and the uncommon Eelektross, but I also prefer Moxie because of the amazing sweeping potential if you're able to get some hazards up and break the Sturdies and Sashes. |
#74
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#78
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Edit: Oh, Thundurus. Really annoying to face. I never saw the Defiant sets until this gen which works me up cause I love me some Mega Manectric. Last edited by Sub-zero; August 28, 2014 at 11:07:07 AM. |
#79
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Charizard X has a pretty decent sweeping potential, but so far I've found that there are plenty of ways to stop it. More of a challenge if the user remembered to teach it Roost, but status, Stealth Rocks on the field, Roar, and the other usual rampage-blocking strategies are all applicable with Charizard. Fire/Dragon is a decent offensive typing, but defensively it leaves a lot to be desired (especially with how common Earthquake and Stone Edge are).
Tough Claws ain't bad, considering most of its common moves make contact, but other than that Its defenses (78/111/85) are mediocre at best and the base Speed (100) is the same as normal Charizard, which isn't very high on the standards of most X/Y OU attackers. So I don't see good ol' Mega X going anywhere any day soon, especially if and when ORAS bring some even bigger monsters to the table. Then again, Smogon's been confusing even me lately, with what they do and don't ban, so I'm probably wrong. |
#81
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I still feel Charizard Y is a bigger threat than X. X requires to set up while Y can go ahead and hit whatever with a Fire move boosted with Sun and STAB. Not to mention Charizard has an ok Special movepool. X either has to sacrifice EQ for Roost or vice versa. I feel Gyarados is a bigger threat since it passes through Unaware.
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